Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

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Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by solidarity19eighty » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:05 pm

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Radosław Sikorski. Oxford educated



-The conversations leaked by Wprost record Polish ministers relaxing over dinner. They were revealed on the June 14, and since then, more recordings have come out

- Bartłomiej Sienkiewicz. In the first recording to be released, he tells the governor of Poland’s central bank that “the Polish state exists only in theory; in practice it doesn’t exist.” [Meaning almost everything is foreign owned]

- who was caught dismissing Poland’s relationship with the United States as “worthless.” “Complete bullshit. We'll get in conflict with the Germans, Russians, and we'll think that everything is super because we gave the Americans a blow job,” he allegedly says in the recording from January 2014, published in Wprost on June 23. “Losers. Complete losers.”. Mr Sikorski called Poland's stance towards the US "downright harmful because it creates a false sense of security", according to the new leak.

- Poland is less enamoured in America than it was ten years ago, when Polish troops took part in the war in Iraq. Edward Lucas, an editor at The Economist, compared Polish-American relations to a “companionable marriage where convenient sharing of chores, rather than romantic passion, has become the main bond.” According to the transcript, Sikorski described Warsaw's attitude towards the United States using the Polish word "murzynskosc."
That derives from the word "murzyn," which denotes a dark-skinned person and someone who does the work for somebody else, according to the PWN Polish language dictionary.

- As he explains in the recording, Poland’s alliance with America is even “harmful because it creates a false sense of security.” Since it joined the EU in 2004, Poland has focused more on building a strong position in Europe, with Sikorski, who has been foreign minister since 2007, working to improve Poland’s relations with Germany and Russia. (This was, admittedly, before Russia annexed Crimea.)

- Radek Sikorski’s linguistically florid appraisal of Cameron’s Europe policies. “It’s either a very badly thought-through move, or, not for the first time, a kind of incompetence in European affairs,” he began politely. And then, “remember? He f**ked up the fiscal pact [of 2011]. He f**ked it up.” "Simple as that. He is not interested, he does not get it, he believes in the stupid propaganda, he stupidly tries to play the system." In another conversation, the spokesman for Polish PM Donald Tusk claims Tusk "fucked (Cameron) up good" in a conversation about UK plans to curb EU migrants' access to benefits.

- The Guardian reported Sikorski also lays into Cameron for not standing up to eurosceptics such as Ukip, saying: "You know, his whole strategy of feeding them scraps in order to satisfy them is just as I predicted, turning against him; he should have said, fuck off. "But he ceded the field to those that are now embarrassing him."
In the same conversation, Rostowski was quoted as saying Poland would only accept Cameron's renegotiated terms of Britain's EU membership "in return for a mountain of gold". He also says Britain leaving the EU would be "generally bad" for Poland.

- ``(We are) suckers, total suckers. The problem in Poland is that we have shallow pride and low self-esteem,'' Mr Sikorski was quoted as saying.

-

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Re: Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by (polskaGOLA) » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:28 am

I've always been pro-EU and still believe in its principles but I am becoming increasingly more suspect that the Eurozone will collapse in time. (I got a really good economics lecture I can link that explains this in detail) When that happens, our future is with close economic and political ties with Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Czech Republic.
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Re: Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by jakub » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:36 pm

I heard about this a while back, its pretty nuts. I wonder what the backlash of this will be?
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Re: Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by nicram » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:51 pm

He might even gain a large amount of support within Poland.
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Re: Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by polskaforever » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:22 pm

EU wont fail :lol:

America hasnt dont anything for Poland in WW2, communism and now. Sikorski is right.
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Re: Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by (polskaGOLA) » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:50 am

polskaforever wrote:EU wont fail :lol:
Eurozone, not EU. And I would be highly suspect of how able the EU would be able to operate should the former fail.

I'm very pro-EU but recent years has like I said, made me increasingly more suspect. Here is the lecture I was speaking of if you have the time. It is a little economics knowledge heavy and he has a Scottish accent but there are captions to help. He is also quite an entertaining speaker.

[youtube]JQuHSQXxsjM[/youtube]

If you don't have an hour, I guess the tl;dr of it is that the Eurozone has become slaves to the German economic system which while works well for Germany, simply doesn't work for certain countries (Spain, Italy, Greece for instance) forcing them to accumulate large amounts of debt. Since the Eurozone shares a currency and these individual countries are unable to print money to deal with their debts, they turn to austerity measures that do not work and are outright harmful to their countries destroying services and growth, leading to massive amounts of unemployment and results in long depressions.

Poland is pretty much safe from this as we've been doing our own thing since Balcerowicz' shock therapy to our economy in 1991. Keeping the zloty low and promoting production and exports in Poland, focusing on growth. The low zloty also means that many Poles left the country for work and bring home remittances further fueling our economy. Should the Eurozone collapse (which it might have to if countries like Spain, Italy, Greece ever want to recover their economies), Poland will remain in a good economic position compared to the rest of Europe.

So long as the rest of the EU is in such economic peril, Poland (and Czech Republic, who will do what we do in this regard) should never adopt the Euro. Maybe if the Eurozone were to ever recover, we should stick to the zloty anyway.
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Re: Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by solidarity19eighty » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:34 pm

Gola. Give me a few days, I'll get to it

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Re: Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by polskaforever » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:58 pm

Eurozone wont fail.
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Re: Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs: converations leaked

Post by solidarity19eighty » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:14 am

(polskaGOLA) wrote:
polskaforever wrote:EU wont fail :lol:
Eurozone, not EU. And I would be highly suspect of how able the EU would be able to operate should the former fail.

I'm very pro-EU but recent years has like I said, made me increasingly more suspect. Here is the lecture I was speaking of if you have the time. It is a little economics knowledge heavy and he has a Scottish accent but there are captions to help. He is also quite an entertaining speaker.

[youtube]JQuHSQXxsjM[/youtube]

If you don't have an hour, I guess the tl;dr of it is that the Eurozone has become slaves to the German economic system which while works well for Germany, simply doesn't work for certain countries (Spain, Italy, Greece for instance) forcing them to accumulate large amounts of debt. Since the Eurozone shares a currency and these individual countries are unable to print money to deal with their debts, they turn to austerity measures that do not work and are outright harmful to their countries destroying services and growth, leading to massive amounts of unemployment and results in long depressions.

Poland is pretty much safe from this as we've been doing our own thing since Balcerowicz' shock therapy to our economy in 1991. Keeping the zloty low and promoting production and exports in Poland, focusing on growth. The low zloty also means that many Poles left the country for work and bring home remittances further fueling our economy. Should the Eurozone collapse (which it might have to if countries like Spain, Italy, Greece ever want to recover their economies), Poland will remain in a good economic position compared to the rest of Europe.

So long as the rest of the EU is in such economic peril, Poland (and Czech Republic, who will do what we do in this regard) should never adopt the Euro. Maybe if the Eurozone were to ever recover, we should stick to the zloty anyway.
Alright I watched the clip. I only took a few Economics courses in College so some of the material was over my head. But I read your review and it all clicks

While he does blame over-lending for being an additional reason for the current situation, his graphs still illustrate that those nations most in trouble knowingly put themselves in the situation, so I didn't get the sense that they were slaves and thus forced to accumulate the debt [Please explain this to me if I misunderstood]. Like you stated, the current issue is what options to these nations now have considering they are under frigid EU rules, essentially rules that are set & worked for Germans. Which goes back to the whole problem with the premise of a shared currency. Nations not only living with distinctly different level of living standards but contrasting ways of doing business in terms of importing/exporting. Ultimately the 'Island States' do not export. And yet they were at the top of his list of 'government expenditures' mid to late 2000's. Honestly F them. While Poles live modestly and now clean toilets in other nations, these lazy bastards are receiving bailouts. Sidenote: How the F does Barcelona afford Neymar & Suarez

Anyway you are spot on with the zloty. Polands current deal with the EU is too good to be true and will likely change in the next decade. We are the largest beneficiary of EU funds (as the lone positive economic story) but yet (no brainier) continue dragging our feet with the currency change. I'd like to think the EU will disband before Poland switches currencies.

I'm not sure the EU will be around by 2030 but I have no doubts in the Euro Zone, so all is well for my return to the homeland in the next 5 years. The problem with Economics is there is no one single solution especially when discussing an entire Continent so you kinda have to pick which Economist you agree with. Ultimately it all feels like a loop hole filled game run by bank crooks. I'm relieved I went into the I.T industry.

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