Polska @ World Cup 2018

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LegiaMistrz1
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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by LegiaMistrz1 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:10 am

polskaforever wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:26 pm
LegiaMistrz1 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:03 pm
daniel wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:56 pm
LegiaMistrz1 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:26 pm
There is a problem with our mentality though,
Ofcourse there is. We always loose. Its the same at each tournament when we make it. Why would it be any different?

Our few successes came decades ago and were not even that amazing. We find it hard to truly believe that we can win.

But then how can we realistically change that?

In football* I believe its by working to create players that are so good, that they can overcome that handicap.

Then we have a winners mentality where we can not imagine not winning.

Confidence flows from results and real talent.


*Like somebody said this is not only true for football but everywhere else. Poland is used to being a second rate nation hanging on the coattails of others and being beaten down. 200 tragic years create that.
Unfortunately the youth now would rather sit at home and play video games and shove Prince Polo and Orenzada down their throats than go outside and play. Future is looking very bleak.
Future looks better than 2000s, 2010s etc. A lot of EK clubs are making better training facilities and academies. Polish players are getting sold for more and more money than ever before. Do you guys follow the Polish league at all?

This NT had the best players it ever had in a long time. Unfortunately we didnt play like a team and didnt look like it compared to our opponents in our group. Thats been the difference. How can you win like that? Talent wont help you here. You saw it that everyone played worse.

Most nations every once in a while produce a "super" talent and the rest of the players are avg. Besides Modric Croatia doesnt have amazing players. They just dont bomb the way we do in a tournament.
I don't think the whole EK should even be considered. Clubs from EK open these academies to mine players, develop them a bit, get them into the system and sell them. EK teams don't appear to be interested in achieving any success on the European stage as the results are worse now than any time in recent history, they are only concerned about domestic results and making money from selling some talent here and there. How many EK players do we have on this NT? Less than ever in history.

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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by polskaforever » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:09 pm

Thats cause Nawalka didnt bother to call up almost anybody from EK. There are upcoming promising youngsters he couldve used and tried out.
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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by polskaforever » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:15 pm

MG wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:04 am
polskaforever wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:57 pm
Pazdan was the best player over two games. He plays for Legia. You dont need super talent to win games. Without Glik, people were worried Pazdan would be worse. If the rest of the team had his attitude and mentality then we would still be in it. Even with new tactics Pazdan still played well. Why couldnt the rest of the team?
Polskaforever there is different answers for different guys; Krychowiak, Grosik, and Kuba all didn't play most of the season because of injuries and bad play and you can't cheat that. Piszczek tried his heart out but his age is showing.

Also you can add that in general Western life coddles most of our players and there motivation levels drop after they hit a certain level; most obviously we saw that with Krychowiak who should have gotten out of PSG much quicker but he liked the French bourgeois lifestyle.
Its easy now to bring up those things. They shouldnt have been called up then.
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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by LegiaMistrz1 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:55 pm

polskaforever wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:09 pm
Thats cause Nawalka didnt bother to call up almost anybody from EK. There are upcoming promising youngsters he couldve used and tried out.
He gave some of them chances in the friendlies, and most weren't ready. Point is we need our best players playing consistently at their clubs and if you look at last season that wasn't the case, even Lewy had a bad ending to a season. You can't expect everybody to be a Kuba of Euro 2016 where they can have a poor club season and step it up for the NT. His situation is the exception, not the rule as this WC showed.

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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by polskaforever » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:56 pm

LegiaMistrz1 wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:55 pm
polskaforever wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:09 pm
Thats cause Nawalka didnt bother to call up almost anybody from EK. There are upcoming promising youngsters he couldve used and tried out.
He gave some of them chances in the friendlies, and most weren't ready. Point is we need our best players playing consistently at their clubs and if you look at last season that wasn't the case, even Lewy had a bad ending to a season. You can't expect everybody to be a Kuba of Euro 2016 where they can have a poor club season and step it up for the NT. His situation is the exception, not the rule as this WC showed.
Yes he did give them some chances but he was too scared to use them in serious situations. I hear this a lot that our best youngsters are not ready because they play in the EK.... :roll:

Nawalka called up a bunch of Polish All Stars and they bombed. Only Pazdan on the field had a homeland connection and he played the best. Why was that?

The rest were a bunch of retards on the field who couldnt do the simplest thing in soccer and they had the most experience. Even if they didnt have great seasons leading to the world cup, their past experiences should still be enough to do decent at least on the NT level. Remember we arent the only national team where some players had poor seasons...

Pazdan played like a true national team soccer player. He came and just did his job. He didnt even struggle under new tactics. If he didnt struggle then the rest shouldnt really have a problem.
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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by LegiaMistrz1 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:05 pm

polskaforever wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:56 pm
LegiaMistrz1 wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:55 pm
polskaforever wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:09 pm
Thats cause Nawalka didnt bother to call up almost anybody from EK. There are upcoming promising youngsters he couldve used and tried out.
He gave some of them chances in the friendlies, and most weren't ready. Point is we need our best players playing consistently at their clubs and if you look at last season that wasn't the case, even Lewy had a bad ending to a season. You can't expect everybody to be a Kuba of Euro 2016 where they can have a poor club season and step it up for the NT. His situation is the exception, not the rule as this WC showed.
Yes he did give them some chances but he was too scared to use them in serious situations. I hear this a lot that our best youngsters are not ready because they play in the EK.... :roll:

Nawalka called up a bunch of Polish All Stars and they bombed. Only Pazdan on the field had a homeland connection and he played the best. Why was that?

The rest were a bunch of retards on the field who couldnt do the simplest thing in soccer and they had the most experience. Even if they didnt have great seasons leading to the world cup, their past experiences should still be enough to do decent at least on the NT level. Remember we arent the only national team where some players had poor seasons...

Pazdan played like a true national team soccer player. He came and just did his job. He didnt even struggle under new tactics. If he didnt struggle then the rest shouldnt really have a problem.
I get what you're saying, and I do think more young players from EK should be given a chance but here's the issue. It's really hard to sift out the hyped talent from the actual talent in the EK because of the opposition. Some players will have a few good games or even a good half season and they're called up to never be heard from again. Player like Malecki, Zwolinski come to mind right away. All touted to have really bright futures to end up being mediocre EK players. Mix that with the agents, clubs, and league officials also trying to promote players they feel deserve a call up and it get very complicated. NT scouts seem to rather wait until a foreign club picks out a talent based on their scouting and then act on that by calling up the player. In short it's just hard to gauge EK talent deserving of NT call ups based on playing in a very poor league.

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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by polskaforever » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:12 pm

Some players that get called up to NT dont enough time and chances and then we will never know. Glik before Euro 2012 was a disaster but he kept getting chance after chance. Eventually, he settled in and became one of our best players. Its crazy how we have a defender who is now a celebrity :P

We never had a star defender in the middle in a long time before him.
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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by niestety » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:56 pm

The failure looked destined...

Szczesny - Spent last season as the #2 at Juve...
Fabianski - Got relegated from the EPL...

Piszczek - ok/good season for BVB
Glik - ok/good season for Monaco
Rybus - ok season in Russia
Bednarek - only played a handful of EPL games...
Bereszynski - ok/good season for Samp
Jedrzejczyk - is so bad now Legia will probably give him away for free to stop paying him
Pazdan - wants to leave EK for two years now, no takers...
Cionek - mostly played Serie B or bottom tier Serie A...

Blaszczykowski - hasn't played much club football in two years due to injuries
Grosicki - played last season in the Championship...
Krychowiak - played for worst EPL team here and there last season...
Linetty - ok season for Samp
Goralski - plays in Bulgaria...
Zielinski - sometimes started for Napoli, mostly a sub...

Milik - Lost most of the last two seasons due to injuries...
Kownacki - sub at Samp...
Lewy - World class level season
Teodorczyk - ok/good season in Belgium

We look like a glorified Bosnia to me on paper. Before Euro 16 we were not like this...

Certain players like Kapustka, Wolski, Zyro, Kaminski, Salamon, Wszolek, etc. never developed by their mid-twenties to refresh this team...

We badly lack players playing for midtable clubs in the top 5-6 leagues.

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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by Robertski » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:39 am

polskaforever wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:56 pm
LegiaMistrz1 wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:55 pm
polskaforever wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:09 pm
Thats cause Nawalka didnt bother to call up almost anybody from EK. There are upcoming promising youngsters he couldve used and tried out.
He gave some of them chances in the friendlies, and most weren't ready. Point is we need our best players playing consistently at their clubs and if you look at last season that wasn't the case, even Lewy had a bad ending to a season. You can't expect everybody to be a Kuba of Euro 2016 where they can have a poor club season and step it up for the NT. His situation is the exception, not the rule as this WC showed.
Yes he did give them some chances but he was too scared to use them in serious situations. I hear this a lot that our best youngsters are not ready because they play in the EK.... :roll:

Nawalka called up a bunch of Polish All Stars and they bombed. Only Pazdan on the field had a homeland connection and he played the best. Why was that?

The rest were a bunch of retards on the field who couldnt do the simplest thing in soccer and they had the most experience. Even if they didnt have great seasons leading to the world cup, their past experiences should still be enough to do decent at least on the NT level. Remember we arent the only national team where some players had poor seasons...

Pazdan played like a true national team soccer player. He came and just did his job. He didnt even struggle under new tactics. If he didnt struggle then the rest shouldnt really have a problem.
Thr WC is not the place to 'TRY OUT' youngsters, that is what the warm up are for.

fact is the team that qualified was not the team at the WC.

Milik - so good in the past with lewy, was atrocious in the first game, Kuba, well its over for him, Gro and Kryk - both out of form. So against Colombia we had no quality to replace them - end of!!

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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by polskaforever » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:38 am

Robertski wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:39 am
polskaforever wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:56 pm
LegiaMistrz1 wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:55 pm
polskaforever wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:09 pm
Thats cause Nawalka didnt bother to call up almost anybody from EK. There are upcoming promising youngsters he couldve used and tried out.
He gave some of them chances in the friendlies, and most weren't ready. Point is we need our best players playing consistently at their clubs and if you look at last season that wasn't the case, even Lewy had a bad ending to a season. You can't expect everybody to be a Kuba of Euro 2016 where they can have a poor club season and step it up for the NT. His situation is the exception, not the rule as this WC showed.
Yes he did give them some chances but he was too scared to use them in serious situations. I hear this a lot that our best youngsters are not ready because they play in the EK.... :roll:

Nawalka called up a bunch of Polish All Stars and they bombed. Only Pazdan on the field had a homeland connection and he played the best. Why was that?

The rest were a bunch of retards on the field who couldnt do the simplest thing in soccer and they had the most experience. Even if they didnt have great seasons leading to the world cup, their past experiences should still be enough to do decent at least on the NT level. Remember we arent the only national team where some players had poor seasons...

Pazdan played like a true national team soccer player. He came and just did his job. He didnt even struggle under new tactics. If he didnt struggle then the rest shouldnt really have a problem.
Thr WC is not the place to 'TRY OUT' youngsters, that is what the warm up are for.

fact is the team that qualified was not the team at the WC.

Milik - so good in the past with lewy, was atrocious in the first game, Kuba, well its over for him, Gro and Kryk - both out of form. So against Colombia we had no quality to replace them - end of!!
You could use 1-3 new players and put them on for at least the last third of the game left. Kapustka in Euros was a revelation. Prior to that, he was having a good EK season.

If you risk calling up and putting on out of form players then why not call up players who are in form but havent had much time in NT or at all :?:
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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by NoReSpEcT » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:09 am

It's hard to disagree with most of your guys sentiments regarding our players. I will say one thing I noticed, which this WC showing (or lack of) reaffirmed in my mind. Poland as a whole cannot play under pressure. Our players, apart from maybe 2 or 3, simply crack under pressure. Regardless what level you are playing at, if you can't control a simple pass and the ball is constantly getting away from you, or sliding under your foot, then you are obviously not feeling comfortable in the game. Then it becomes a domino effect and your confidence just plummets. Poland is the only team at this WC that I saw this from. The Senegal game was key, as soon as we didn't get a result there the players knew we were done, and they were almost too afraid to put a foot wrong in the Colombia game. It's almost like nobody wanted the ball in fear of being the one to cost us the next goal and it tied their shoelaces together mentally. No Glik means no defence for us I'm afraid.

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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by Robertski » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:38 am

Bednarek was very good for Southampton in the second half of the season if he continues to impress in PL he could be someone to build our defence around in the future.

Players like kapustka have simply failed to step up.

We need more youngster playing in quality leagues to develop better technical skills and speed of foot that you need at the highest levels.

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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by seuratski » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:24 am

You cannot completely disregard the EK no matter how bad compared to other leagues it is. It has it's problems, but the majority of Polish footballers that are getting playing time and developing at all play there. If they go to a foreign league and don't play, it should be a sign that they can't cut it there.

A team like Iran fills spots on their roster with players that play in their league. I'm sure some of you will say that the Persian Gulf Pro League is better than EK, and we can argue about that. The rest of the players play abroad in better leagues. They may not be members of the first 11, but over the years they have plenty of appearances.

You're going to make good money playing football anywhere in Europe. Our players need to think more about where they can compete and fit in. If they don't cut it on a team after a season and a half tops they should be screaming to let them go play elsewhere. It's almost like they lack the hunger to show they belong on the field. If they can't fight for their club spots, how can they be expected to fight for the national side.

In a weird way, it resembles what happened to the US team. There's a bit of arrogance amongst the players that hasn't been earned. What have these players done to think they don't need to bust their asses against the best teams in the world?

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Re: Polska @ World Cup 2018

Post by polskaforever » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:06 pm

seuratski wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:24 am
You cannot completely disregard the EK no matter how bad compared to other leagues it is. It has it's problems, but the majority of Polish footballers that are getting playing time and developing at all play there. If they go to a foreign league and don't play, it should be a sign that they can't cut it there.
I couldnt agree more. On a team you always need youngsters to give that shot in the arm for the older players not to get too lazy. A mix of veteran leadership and experience with young blood who are hungrier to succeed.

Nawalkas campaign is coming to an end but look back to the 4 games vs Germany. Results were 0-0 (friendly), 2-0 (qualifier), 3-1 (qualifier) and 0-0 (euro group stage). Back then Nawalka called up a nice mix of foreign league and EK players for those games and we did alright.

I think PZPN should take control of EK entirely. There has to be an easier transition for EK players to national team. Something in a way where players who play in EK think theyre almost going to play for the NT if you know what I mean cause right now the Polish league is separate from PZPN. Clubs in EK dont care about national team success in the sense that their academies are only for their own gain.

PZPN doesnt give a fak about EK and EK doesnt give a fak about PZPN. Thats our problem right there. It should be one collective for the greater good.
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